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Gear upgrading made me quit.

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Okay I can say so far from my time played in the game I really really enjoy it. However once you start the process of upgrading your gear, it goes completely downhill. To craft equipment you need a few things and one of the items is always something that is obtained by purchasing from a vendor with a currency you only get from doing quests off the board in town. Not to mention the time to craft your equipment is ridiculous! Why? I really enjoy the characters and exploration, but when it comes to the overall progression in terms of equipment creating. It absolutely needs to be revamped, I can promise you, NOBODY wants to wait around for a piece of gear they need to play the game. I should be spending more time gathering mats in the world for my next upgrade, instead of taking up my whole night crafting. I cant express how upset this makes me as I actually enjoy this game and I want to progress more, but you wont let me unless I pay real $ or wait all f***ing night. Back to Rotmg.

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while i think ruby mats are optional (everything in that list are dungeon drops?) i do agree with the craft timers being old fashioned and reeking of freemium mobile quality. rather than wanting to wait hours for a simple stat reroll, it makes me want to play a different game instead lol. not working out well in this day/age

 

you know what it reminds me of? Shop Heroes. another game i loved but quit because the craft timers got progressively worse

Edited by GrandTickler
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They are following the steps of Warframe with a crafting time required for each object, however, the times are beyond ridiculous at this point, and even worse, in Warframe this is not an issue because you do it only ONCE for an item, and you can't lose it, it is forever unless you sell it, but this doesn't have in Survived By, you may rush a weapon and lose it in two minutes... unless you pay more, that is the shadiest part of the game, you have to wait for simple rerolls, and you are ALWAYS in need of new equipment because your characters die and you create new ones, none of these things happen in Warframe. I urge everybody who reads this post to comment so something is done in the near future, the devs already know the times are absurd, but I don't know why they couldn't change it yet (I doubt they don't want, maybe they are trying to revamp it instead of making small changes), Katherine I summon you 

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we have been raving over these idiotic and nonsensical crafting times for months, all we can do now is hope that they at least acknowledge them, in hope that they can get reduced.

rerolling a prefix should not take as long as it does, as a random chance percentage determines the outcome, so you dont always know what you are getting. Hell, you can reroll the same piece of gear 20 times, waiting countless hours just to end up disappointed. OR, HUR DURR you can spend real money to speed it up.

crafting times for enriched materials are also absurd. One enriched takes an HOUR. WTF? An hour for one material? (Dont forget the 10+ hours (dont remember the exact time as i havent played in awhile) that it takes to craft a single piece of t10 gear that can be lost in an instant (and retrieved with real money ffs)).

a good recommendation is for the devs to play their own game like a new free to play tester, no electrum allowed, and see how much fun they have with the crafting times.

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1 minute ago, Moroth said:

all we can do now is hope that they at least acknowledge them, in hope that they can get reduced.

 

You mean, keep ranting until something gets done

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1 minute ago, Edge said:

You mean, keep ranting until something gets done

Seems to be the slow, but effective route.

I remember ranting about sentinel being absolute garbage back in week 12 or so for like a month. Quit the game, came back and he was fixed.

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6 hours ago, Edge said:

They are following the steps of Warframe with a crafting time required for each object, however, the times are beyond ridiculous at this point, and even worse, in Warframe this is not an issue because you do it only ONCE for an item, and you can't lose it, it is forever unless you sell it, but this doesn't have in Survived By, you may rush a weapon and lose it in two minutes... unless you pay more, that is the shadiest part of the game, you have to wait for simple rerolls, and you are ALWAYS in need of new equipment because your characters die and you create new ones, none of these things happen in Warframe. I urge everybody who reads this post to comment so something is done in the near future, the devs already know the times are absurd, but I don't know why they couldn't change it yet (I doubt they don't want, maybe they are trying to revamp it instead of making small changes), Katherine I summon you 

Warframe has it nailed so much better though, in warframe you are not limited to 1 craft at a time, at one point i was crafting so many equipment at once that the timer stopped to matter completely. (by the time i had 20 guns crafted, 30 more were busy being crafted, and i had to level every single one of them) the only thing you have to buy in that game are inventory slots which are only a few cents each. Just to get a second craftline open in Survived By costs you like 2$ and it only gets more expensive from there. i think its a business model thats doomed to fail.

Edited by GrandTickler

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It definitely seems that crafting times are one of the most universally contested features in the game right now. While it's unlikely that they will ever go away, it's completely reasonable that they would be rebalanced. I'll bring this back as a high-priority item.

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48 minutes ago, hh_katherine said:

It definitely seems that crafting times are one of the most universally contested features in the game right now. While it's unlikely that they will ever go away, it's completely reasonable that they would be rebalanced. I'll bring this back as a high-priority item.

just reduce rerolling time drastically, and keep crafting time as it is but add some kind of queue system with limited items per batch "something like 10 items per batch"  and let us come back later to claim it all

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1 hour ago, hh_katherine said:

It definitely seems that crafting times are one of the most universally contested features in the game right now. While it's unlikely that they will ever go away, it's completely reasonable that they would be rebalanced. I'll bring this back as a high-priority item.

I'm nobody to tell a group of developers how to monetize their game, and I'm sure an EA executive or whoever controls the microtransactions would probably laugh internally at this type of complaints. Unpopularity of this feature may define the cost-reward equation where you consider that this is a loss too big to keep in the game, but it's not all popularity, there are reasons why this mechanic is so unpopular, and I can mention some that I found in my experience, 1) Waiting for an item to craft may make you not to play until it has ended, and you never want the player to stop playing, a Tier 10 item may make you wait a day if you don't have a replacement, and when you want to craft a Hard key with only one Craftsman you realise that you don't have anything to do in the meantime, do I kill Gorgons to stack up keys? Boring 2) Second and foremost, the gist of the argument, investing money in reducing crafting times is like participating in a hedge fund, you know that tomorrow you may lose all your money and your house, it is a very-high-risk investment, and since the end-game in Survived By is killing Wraiths to get legacies, you are going to die ALL the time 3) To recover a tier 9 item you have to pay 400 Electrum, a full set would take you more than 10 dollars, and you are supposed to do this many many times to get many legacies full level (and I don't think that doubling the Valr required to max a single legacy helps in this regard), and with Tier 10 it probably gets even crazier, "hey, you paid 10 dollars to speed up this Tier 10 set, you micro lagged and died against Goliath five minutes later (it happened to me once...), how about you pay 20 dollars if you want to get your things back?", and there is where I go back to Terraria to appreciate the 10 bucks it costs. You have to be millionaire to use the Electrum regularly in Survived By, everything except a new slot, the first two craftsmen and the inventory and Vault slots expansions, is overpriced, and those are ok because those are safe investments, you can't lose them, just like you can't lose anything you pay in Warframe... And that's why nobody complains about its monetary practices, you pay, you get something of value in return, you just need more safe content to sell

Edited by Edge
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On 7/23/2018 at 11:10 PM, hh_katherine said:

It definitely seems that crafting times are one of the most universally contested features in the game right now. While it's unlikely that they will ever go away, it's completely reasonable that they would be rebalanced. I'll bring this back as a high-priority item.

Why is it unlikely that they will ever go away? All that the crafting time does is make the game less fun to play, is this what you guys want? a game that is purely made to milk the players rather than being fun? This is just sad.

 

You should focus on cosmetics rather than making the game less fun, trust me youll make more money that way.

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Calm down guys, they need to make money ! They're not as huge as EA.
For the dude saying he is going back to ROTMG, the micro-transactions are far worse than here ... you're fooling noone here.
How about the little poor boy which can't buy "buy-to-play" games ? Should the companies give them for free ? While micro-transactions allows you to play the game even if you're poor ? Admit that it's suits you to ignore that fact.

Even if the game doesn't implement micro-transactions, I think they must keep this crafting time system, because this make the stuff to be worthy rewards.
Okay, the crafting time may be a little too long for some stuff though ...

To keep the maximum of person happy (no, not you troll-boy, you can leave, ignore me or rage, whatever ... I'm already out) : maybe decrease a little bit the crafting time and decrease a little bit the price of the "craft now for x gold" feature ?

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On 7/26/2018 at 1:13 PM, filipanton said:

Why is it unlikely that they will ever go away? All that the crafting time does is make the game less fun to play, is this what you guys want? a game that is purely made to milk the players rather than being fun? This is just sad.

 

You should focus on cosmetics rather than making the game less fun, trust me youll make more money that way.

If a game doesn’t have grinding or waiting times then you’ll have people reaching the endgame in no time.  Yes that seems fun but then there is no sense of achievement.   It doesn’t encourage players to keep playing for a while.  Basically the only reason the electrum cost to reduce the wait times is only there because some people hate waiting so if they want to stop waiting then they can pay for it.  Cosmetics and inventory spaces are where the game actually makes money.  

So I’d say that they’re not trying to milk people.  They’re giving stupid people with lots of money a choice to waste it on crafting if they want.  

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1 hour ago, Dryice101 said:

If a game doesn’t have grinding or waiting times then you’ll have people reaching the endgame in no time.  Yes that seems fun but then there is no sense of achievement.   It doesn’t encourage players to keep playing for a while.  Basically the only reason the electrum cost to reduce the wait times is only there because some people hate waiting so if they want to stop waiting then they can pay for it.  Cosmetics and inventory spaces are where the game actually makes money.  

So I’d say that they’re not trying to milk people.  They’re giving stupid people with lots of money a choice to waste it on crafting if they want.  

Hey, calm down, those "stupid people", aka whales, are one of the reasons free to play succeed, and probably one of the reasons why there can be people playing for free, there is no need to denigrate.

There is a post of Twilight053 that I can't find now, maybe it's gone or it's too old, doing some calculations about speeding up times and showing how the current system isn't good even for paid users, it's too expensive unless you are a millionaire, because you have to craft hundreds of items only to get ONE character full with Tier 9 or 10 gear, a character that you are probably going to use (suicide) in the well, or replace with Tier 8 for the fight as we all do, but anyway, it's still a LOT to pay for, and since you are supposed to die and begin again, it's technically an "infinite recurrent monetary practice", that's why I vouch for either removing them entirely (they won't lose much money because not many people speed up gear), and if you say that "ok, but people will reach the endgame in no time at all", well, the endgame of Survived By is, currently, getting Tier 10 armor (Conduit of Fire) and then suiciding in the Well so you can get Ancient Legacies, you have to beat the game MANY times until you have a good amount of Ancient Legacies, and let alone having them at level 50, the game at this point requires you to spend a LOT of time to actually get everything, and those who got it already is because there are broken ancient legacies that give you almost immunity and infinite energy, and they are probably going to nerf/delete those before the release, in other words, the game now is quite the grind... it is slow, I don't like it being slowed even more just because Warframe pulled this system correctly, this isn't Warframe, there you get an item and you keep it forever, here you lose it and you begin again.

Besides "some people hate waiting", we all hate waiting, we are humans and we don't have unlimited time, in the twenty first century in a modern society most of the people either have a "lack of time" crisis or just get little spare time, specially if you have a 8-9 hours job, it's just that some people are more prone to actually spend money to skip this artificial time than others, it's a system that doesn't contribute to anything to the game, it is actually backwards, it makes you to wait to play, and as I always say, you don't want players stopping to play your game, never, because they may open another one and forget your game actually exists, ok, this won't happen the first time, but the tenth?

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I'd like to farm for mats in order to upgrade the gear rather than wait for it.

It has been shown that the best bussiness model for a free2play mmo is inventory space+cosmetics and a fair gameplay.

Edited by YoFede

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It takes 24 hours or way less to get full t9 gear. After that, you either farm t8 gear for your next character or you wait 55 hours or way more if you want good rerolls.

Pretty sure there are game with better options when you reach end game?

This game needs grinding but grinding is only possible if you change the crafting system or remove it. For example, how do you farm high tier mats if it takes 1 hour to craft a hard key which you clear it in 5-10 minutes? And if you have only 1 crafting station is way worse, because you probably are crafting a t10 gear and can't make keys. So you're back to the 2 first options; farm t8 gear for next character or wait for the t10 gear.

So you either reduce drastically the crafting time or remove it. There are many other ways to make money like cosmetics and other stuff, but everyone knows that the crafting station is making people quit, when it should make them play (or at least not hate it completely). I'm pretty sure you'd find much better ways to make money if you just create a topic asking players what they would like to spend money on

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Its actually insane that some people believe that crafting times slows the progression in a good way. Imagine playing any video game, lets say pokemon, and then someone comes and turns the gameboy off and says "youll have to wait 12 hours until you can play again", does that sound? its ridiculous.

This is a rogue-lite game, Imagine spending more time crafting items rather than playing the game, it simply doesnt work. 

Please just do the same thing Path of Exile does, charge people for cosmetics, character slots, maybe even do like inventory space... I would honestly be fine with that.

Also if you compare this game to Warframe the system is still flawed, in Warframe you at least get to keep the items forever, in this game you might spend hours crafting something then dying 20min later, its simply not a good system.

Edited by filipanton

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"youll have to wait 12 hours until you can play again" Nani the fu** ? Where ? How ? Are we talking about the same game ? I think not ^^

Edited by Byos

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