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hh_katherine

Economy Overhaul

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Hello, Ancestors!
 

While the majority of our team are working away at fixing bugs around server stability, performance, transaction issues, and adding new features, Ryan has been working with a couple people at Digital Extremes on some long-coming economy changes.These include some pretty big changes which we detail below, but the most immediate impact on the game are:

  • A major overhaul of the in-game economy balance in this week’s build
  • An account reset for all players to get a real sense of the impact of the changes - any Electrum you’ve purchased with real money will be waiting in your reset account for you!
  • We’re letting in a ton of new players and will give you all keys to invite your friends this week!  


In this week’s update there’ll be a major overhaul of our in-game economy. Player based economies are a difficult thing to create and an even more difficult thing to balance. At this point in time, we have bitten more off than we can chew by having multiple currencies all being exchanged in the auction houses.

  • We will be making following changes to both simplify our economy and boost the value of Bloodstone:
    • The Silver Auction House is being removed. From now on, Silver will be used to send mail, add attachments to messages, and list new items for Bloodstone auction. Teleporting between shrines will still cost Silver.
    • Reintroduce a Bloodstone Auction House in the future. We want to make sure that Bloodstone is used for more than Electrum purchasing. This will be accomplished by making all Auction House listings priced in Bloodstone - which means you can use the Bloodstone earned from quests to bid on new gear and upgrades for your characters. This won’t go online right away, but in the meantime, you will be given the option to do the following:
       
      • Purchase T1-5 gear for Silver from vendors (T1-2 after Bloodstone Auction House reintroduction)
      • Purchase T6-9 gear for Bloodstone from vendors (T3-9 after Bloodstone Auction House reintroduction)
         
    • Major changes to simplify and make Electrum prices more transparent across the board. Our goal here was to make Electrum prices more transparent by removing many scaling costs and reducing the overall price of sets of items. As a result, while the initial prices of some items have gone up (e.g. the first crafting station now costs 500 instead of 250), the overall prices for multiples (or a complete set) have gone down. (e.g. costs of all crafting stations has been reduced from 4150 to 2000).
    • The cost to unlock new classes has been reduced to 200 Electrum from 300
    • The following items have now been changed from an escalating fee to a flat fee:
      • Crafting Stations now cost a flat fee of 500 Electrum (total cost of all 4 has reduced from 4150 to 2000)
      • Unlocking Bag Space is a flat fee of 250 Electrum
      • Vault Space is a flat fee of 500 Electrum
      • Unlocking new character slots is a flat fee of 600 Electrum (cost of 5 character slots reduced from 3500 to 3000)
      • Using the returner is a flat fee of 35 Electrum (down from a previous max of 1500 for a T11 item)
      • Marking items for kin is a flat fee of 100 Electrum (down from a previous max of 3000 for a T11 item)

We also received a lot of community feedback regarding crafting: a desire for more diverse recipes, rebalanced crafting times, and making crafting costs more accessible. We hear you!

We’ve added two new crafting tiers to make crafting more dynamic and allow for more unique recipes. Crafting times for T1-5 have been reduced across the board, while T6-9 have been increased slightly. All crafting costs have been reduced - the higher the tier being crafted, the greater the discount! You’ll be able to find full details for these crafting cost changes in this week’s patch notes.

This is our first major step in reshaping the economy. To make sure we have a good feel for how these changes impact the economy, we will be resetting all accounts when the build launches this Wednesday. Please let us know what you think of these changes in the comments below! Where would you like to see us focus next for the economy changes?  


 

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32 minutes ago, hh_katherine said:
  • We will be making following changes to both simplify our economy and boost the value of Bloodstone:
    • The Silver Auction House is being removed. From now on, Silver will be used to send mail, add attachments to messages, and list new items for Bloodstone auction. Teleporting between shrines will still cost Silver.
    • Reintroduce a Bloodstone Auction House in the future. We want to make sure that Bloodstone is used for more than Electrum purchasing. This will be accomplished by making all Auction House listings priced in Bloodstone - which means you can use the Bloodstone earned from quests to bid on new gear and upgrades for your characters. This won’t go online right away, but in the meantime, you will be given the option to do the following:
       
      • Purchase T1-5 gear for Silver from vendors (T1-2 after Bloodstone Auction House reintroduction)
      • Purchase T6-9 gear for Bloodstone from vendors (T3-9 after Bloodstone Auction House reintroduction)

Yay first comment.

 

Am I correct in thinking that T1-9 gear will be available from vendors and no longer dropped in dungeons?

 

cheers

Morbid

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With Silver Auction House being disabled and Bloodstone Auction House not being ready yet, does that mean there will be no Auction House at all in the interim?

Edited by Kahk

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Just wondering about the upgrade to bag space, but is the upgrade an upgrade to all characters, and are they permanent?

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I'd just like to add something and it has to be another post as I cannot figure out how to edit my old posts.

 

Not too many people come here on these forums from the looks of the activity,

Lots of people are going to be shocked and sad/mad about the wipe when it happens on wednesday.

I assume you will be notifying everyone through other means.

 

I am discouraged by weapontinkerer's response on thread: 

 

This is just in alpha, meaning we will wipe the servers.

He refers to it as Alpha, while being just an honest mistake it sounds a bit alarming when someone talks about it so casually.

How many more wipes will there be in the foreseeable future?

 

Lots of my free to play friends who don't donate are not going to continue playing a massive grinding game for when there is a wipe they are left back at square one

while the people who donated, some more than others, come out with a head start.

 

I'd donate for them all if I could but I can't,

Please give them some incentive to come back.

Thank You

 

 

 

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I like this quite a bit, but....

Silver seems kinda useless now.

It would be much better if we had bloodstone and bloodstone shards.

Shards could have a 10:1 conversion ratio to bloodstone.

Instead of using silver to put something on the market you can have the procentage tax be added to the final price of the item.  So the final price could be 10 bloodstone, a player purchases that item,  and the player that put the item up receives 8 bloodstone and 5 shards for it.

Teleporting would work on a time stack basis. So you have maximum 3 stacks, and each stack takes 20-30 minutes to fill up.

Every time you teleport a stack goes down, and a cooldown starts. This would add some resource management to teleportation and make the game harder (and thats good, I think.....)


You can make bloodshards be the new rare drop (when compared to silver) , and thats that.

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I just noticed that there is a contradiction between 2 different sources of information.

unknown.png
unknown.png?width=740&height=209

In game, I purchased stuff with electrum that I bought in game, and I wont be getting the electrum or the upgrades back?

Edited by John62534
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4 minutes ago, John62534 said:

I just noticed that there is a contradiction between 2 different sources of information.

unknown.png
unknown.png?width=740&height=209

One is for class unlock, and the other one is for character slot unlock. 2 different things.

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1 minute ago, MrJaffaCake said:

One is for class unlock, and the other one is for character slot unlock. 2 different things.

But like, the twitter one says that a character slot is now 200, but the Update post from here says that the character slot will be 600.

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3 minutes ago, John62534 said:

But like, the twitter one says that a character slot is now 200, but the Update post from here says that the character slot will be 600.

Well its either a mistake, or just a way to express what they are thinking. Its a currency update so they probably thought about prices quite a bit, creating the "300 - 200"  dilemma.

Either way, I dont think it matters much.

 

It is quite late, and I am quite sleepy, so at this point it can by anything XD

Edited by MrJaffaCake
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14 minutes ago, MrJaffaCake said:

Well its either a mistake, or just a way to express what they are thinking. Its a currency update so they probably thought about prices quite a bit, creating the "300 - 200"  dilemma.

Either way, I dont think it matters much.

 

It is quite late, and I am quite sleepy, so at this point it can by anything XD

Why are you even commenting? The guy clearly pointed out a mistake? An important mistake as it advertising conflicting prices.

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20 minutes ago, John62534 said:

But like, the twitter one says that a character slot is now 200, but the Update post from here says that the character slot will be 600.

I’m assuming there could easily be a misinterpretation from the wording and could’ve been a misunderstanding from whoemever handles twitter, but I take it as character slots will be 600 for each.  And hey, if they happen to be 200 then I won’t complain, but I won’t be disappointed when they are 600.  

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I like this overall as a newcomer to the game it was quite easy to play for a while and just be able to purchase a lot of stuff for your new characters and power level them incredibly quickly. This will make things a lot more balanced in terms of leveling new characters (which should be like they need to be earned each time in my opinion).

Overall i like it, can't wait to play more and keep streaming the game to get the word out especially when we are given keys. 

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1 hour ago, John62534 said:

Just wondering about the upgrade to bag space, but is the upgrade an upgrade to all characters, and are they permanent?

Yes and yes, it's been always that way and I haven't read any changes to it.

 

53 minutes ago, John62534 said:

I just noticed that there is a contradiction between 2 different sources of information.

unknown.png
unknown.png?width=740&height=209

In game, I purchased stuff with electrum that I bought in game, and I wont be getting the electrum or the upgrades back?

The guy in the Twitter account clearly missed the name of the product, it's quite obvious. Besides, the information conveyed in this type of Katherine posts is of more importance than the ones expressed in a simple tweet, if your intention is only to show the contradiction in the posts, welp, you have already done it, devs will clarify if this becomes of importance (aka people ranting because of this mistake), something that I don't think it is, and I'm sure many will agree.

On another note, I've read somewhere that all the Electrum purchased in the auction house won't be refunded, can't redirect you to the original devs post

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Quote

Bloodstone Auction House

Am I misunderstanding something here ? 

 

>Buy Electrum

>Buy Bloodstone with Electrum

>Buy all the best gear in the auction house with bloodstone

 

So we don't know yet how much bloodstone we'll get by questing after the patch, but it seems to me thats if what I have written above is correct, somebody that doesn't pump money in the game won't be on even footing with someone who does (in short p2w) ?

 

I seriously hope I misunderstood something there :(

 

 

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22 hours ago, MorbidDeath said:

I'd just like to add something and it has to be another post as I cannot figure out how to edit my old posts.

 

Not too many people come here on these forums from the looks of the activity,

Lots of people are going to be shocked and sad/mad about the wipe when it happens on wednesday.

I assume you will be notifying everyone through other means.

 

I am discouraged by weapontinkerer's response on thread: 

 

This is just in alpha, meaning we will wipe the servers.

He refers to it as Alpha, while being just an honest mistake it sounds a bit alarming when someone talks about it so casually.

How many more wipes will there be in the foreseeable future?

 

Lots of my free to play friends who don't donate are not going to continue playing a massive grinding game for when there is a wipe they are left back at square one

while the people who donated, some more than others, come out with a head start.

 

I'd donate for them all if I could but I can't,

Please give them some incentive to come back.

Thank You

 

 

 

I was talking to Ryan and He said that if things work out and nothing breaks they only have one more wipe planed (I presume this one).

Edited by Valr
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1 hour ago, Morggause said:

Am I misunderstanding something here ? 

 

>Buy Electrum

>Buy Bloodstone with Electrum

>Buy all the best gear in the auction house with bloodstone

 

So we don't know yet how much bloodstone we'll get by questing after the patch, but it seems to me thats if what I have written above is correct, somebody that doesn't pump money in the game won't be on even footing with someone who does (in short p2w) ?

 

I seriously hope I misunderstood something there :(

 

 

I seriously hope you misunderstood too :( 

 

Edited by MorbidDeath
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7 hours ago, Morggause said:

Am I misunderstanding something here ? 

 

>Buy Electrum

>Buy Bloodstone with Electrum

>Buy all the best gear in the auction house with bloodstone

 

So we don't know yet how much bloodstone we'll get by questing after the patch, but it seems to me thats if what I have written above is correct, somebody that doesn't pump money in the game won't be on even footing with someone who does (in short p2w) ?

 

I seriously hope I misunderstood something there :(

 

 

Apart from the fact that I kinda agree that full wipes in grindy games like this are really harsh and a friend of mine is considering to stop playing because of it. This is a major concern, the game was fine in the sense that there was no way to pay to get something too good, now you'll be able to pay and get T9 or even AH items like T10 etc.. which seems kinda bad. Electrum should only be either cosmetic or convenience (like bag spaces, forge stations etc ...).

 

Other than that I'm happy that the economic system is overhauled since silver were pretty important early on and not useful at all later on (you'd need them but you could just run conduit of fire for a nice 7~10K silvers).

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14 hours ago, MrJaffaCake said:

Well its either a mistake, or just a way to express what they are thinking. Its a currency update so they probably thought about prices quite a bit, creating the "300 - 200"  dilemma.

Either way, I dont think it matters much.

 

It is quite late, and I am quite sleepy, so at this point it can by anything XD

That was an oops on my part when I tweeted - the old one was removed last night and updated with the proper values.

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What about billing issues that aren't already resolved ? Is the "reset" gonna solve these issues ?

Edited by Byos

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15 minutes ago, Byos said:

What about billing issues that aren't already resolved ? Is the "reset" gonna solve these issues ?

All Electrum will be refunded to player accounts - we're tracking on our backend which accounts have spent money on Electrum and how much, so it will show up in your account on Wednesday.

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10 minutes ago, hh_katherine said:

Hey there!

 We're very careful to make sure that the game isn't "pay to win." The fact that Survived By is an entirely PvE game definitely helps - if one player decides to spend Electrum to level up their gear, it will only help everyone around them as XP/loot are shared. That being said, we are working closely with DE to balance power distribution carefully. Electrum gives you the option to "pay for time" (buying a skin outright instead of earning it through questing) rather than "paying for power."

Auction prices are determined by other players, and we allow players to self-regulate Auctionhouse economies. In accordance with the changes being made , the bloodstone awarded by quests and challenges will be balanced accordingly. The goal of trading Bloodstone for Electrum is that people who don't want to spend money on the game can trade their time playing for Electrum and get everything for free (similar to Warframe.)

All of this said, we always want to make sure the economy as fair as possible. Keep the feedback coming, we will definitely make adjustments in the future if needed.

 

 

Thanks for the answer, 

If done correctly it might have a minimal impact. And we'll all trust you and your team to do the right thing, that being said I'd much prefer if the model was closer to what Path of Exile is doing, where the entirety of their micro-transactions are cosmetics (except stash space, but thats fine too). 

 

That being said, I don't run a company, and I'm only talking for myself, the game that we have been able to play so far is full of promise and being a huge fan of arpg I'd love for it to be very good and successfull. 

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What's the time of wipe?? Midnight PST?
When it will be playable? xP 
Some people here wants to go from the very beggining in to the game together!

 

Edited by Krzywdziciel

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Hello

  1. After wipe, we will be able to hold actually House name or we need to choose/create it again?
  2. What about electum earned by changing bloodstones from quests in Tower? This electum gonna survive this wipe or only players who brought electum for real money will get their electum?
  3. "We’re letting in a ton of new players and will give you all keys to invite your friends this week!  " - so you gonna send us keys to game directly to e-mails? Can i get 2 please? :)

Yours

Skilah / R3APER

Edited by Skilah

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