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Zestygoobs

Multiple Suggestions

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Hello,

After putting in 36 hours since launch and not having played alpha or beta, I wanted to give a few suggestions for the game. This game is exactly what I've been waiting for a long time, Its excellent, and its being back by one of the best and most caring dev teams. I see myself being around for a while.

  • I believe we should move the exchange vendor for currencies right to the middle of town, right where you first create a character. We have seen people miss this vendor and write disappointing and inaccurate reviews because they quickly jump into the game, don't see the vendor on the left side of town leave and write a bad review.
  • I really enjoy these kind of permadeath roguelite but it kind of is a slap in the face to see when you die, that you can pay to keep gear. Now this feature is kind of pay to win and I think will offer little to no benefit, Now keeping 1 item through death is already very generous but to much hand holding mechanics will push away the dedicated player base over time. I want it to actually feel like a risk to die.
  • The Thorns vendor just seems like a bad idea overall. People see this vendor, Leave, call it pay to win and write a bad review pushing away players before they can even begin. I don't see the benefit to this vendor, It seems like it'll hurt the game more then benefiting it. Could be mistaken why it was even added to begin with but not a super big fan, even if the gear isn't great, new players don't really sit down to discover it's only as good as t5.5.
  • The dungeon bosses are complete jokes. I know you guys have mentioned balancing passes, but I just wanted to mention this one, Ive done all the way up to T8. The T8 boss, all you need to do is run in a circle without stopping around the boss and you'll never die. It feels like a T1 boss. Also I don't see the point in adding safe area's in boss rooms such as T5, T7. You can just hide behind the rocks and ignore the entire boss without ever getting hit. I run T7 in about 2 minutes without ever being hit, Maybe remove the rocks, Clear some more trees for space, Spread the mob spawns to around the room and add actual bullets from the boss you'll need skill to dodge.
  • Leaderboards, This one I'm sure has been mentioned many times over, But a simple leaderboard would be great, They add longevity to the game for the dedicated players. Something along the lines of a  score for your character that you rack up over time playing. You earn X points for kills, X points for staying alive X amount of time. X points for boss kills...etc. Then once you die, They add all up and put on a leaderboard in town, Seems like a simple idea that many would really appreciate.
  • Being able to pay either silver or bloodstones to complete crafts, I feel like always have a second option on currencies will really help combat this "p2w" aspect people keep thinking the game has (Which I don't think it has, besides the thorns gear and keeping items on death).
  • Adding the ability to move your characters in a set order on the character screen, When I start the game, I would love to have my druid at the beginning of the selection, but that just a small quality of life addition.
  • Being able to see which server you are on, while in game. (this could be a thing already, just don't see it)
  • One thing I liked about RoTmG is that your appearance stayed the same but your weapon changed, I like the idea of your character weapon changing based upon what you have equipped, Its kind of nice to boast around town with a T10 weapon without having to open the clunky person near me stab, click them and click inspect, Would be a really cool to see added.
  • The vault storage isn't even enough, Even with 100 slots I'm having to put many stacks/items on characters. The charms will never be able to put in the vault, I have like 40 different kinds. Possibly create a charm tab in the vault which would mimic the amount of slots in the main vault. I would love to deposit my charms but I just don't have enough space even with purchased slots.

I apologize about the spelling, Quickly wrote it up while trying to play. Anyways If anyone would like me to elaborate on idea's or suggestions please let me know.

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Hey there Zesty- 

Thank you for the kind words!

We are going to move the Exchange into the middle of town, this is an excellent suggestion and will definitely improve visibility and understanding of our economy. You should see this change soon! :D

We are also looking at adding a bloodstone option that will allow you to keep your items "marked for kin," which we hope will alleviate some of the "P2W" concerns.

The thorns vendor suggestion is excellent, although he likely won't be removed we should definitely make it a lot clearer that this armor is only strong to a point.

Dungeon bosses could definitely use some love. This is one of those things that I think everyone wants to be better, but we've had a tough time getting around to it. We even have plans to play short cinematic animations the first time you battle them, etc. -- some really cool stuff!  I'm excited for the changes and hope things settle down with the servers soon so we can start adding these features and improving gameplay around bosses.

Leaderboards are another feature we also definitely want - it would be super fun to have them by the Well!

Silver/bloodstone to quick craft also sounds great and would help alleviate a lot of our feedback about unfair monetization that we've heard on Steam. It's another way to make Bloodstones valuable and gives players more options.

There's a lot of fantastic feedback in this post and I think we really agree with all of it - thank you for taking the time to share, some great stuff here!

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Awesome, Thanks for the great responses, Appreciate you taking the time. 

One Question I do want to follow up on is what is the purpose of allowing characters to pay currency whether it be silver/bloodstones/elec to keep gear on death? Doesn't this just defeat the purpose of a permadeath rouge lite, We have a separate discord with high end players running t9 and t10 atm, and we all agree that dying really doesn't affect you besides a couple of hours of re-leveling your character. 

Eventually people will get board with a full bank of high end game because they never lose the gear when dying, So the gear eventually just piles up and nothing is being removed from the game. Allowing people to keep the gear will also ruin the economy, Prices will drop because so much gear will be floating around between the players it'll become worthless.

You need a way to remove remove gear from the game to allow for a healthy economy and keeping the players interested.

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4 hours ago, Zestygoobs said:

Awesome, Thanks for the great responses, Appreciate you taking the time. 

One Question I do want to follow up on is what is the purpose of allowing characters to pay currency whether it be silver/bloodstones/elec to keep gear on death? Doesn't this just defeat the purpose of a permadeath rouge lite, We have a separate discord with high end players running t9 and t10 atm, and we all agree that dying really doesn't affect you besides a couple of hours of re-leveling your character. 

Eventually people will get board with a full bank of high end game because they never lose the gear when dying, So the gear eventually just piles up and nothing is being removed from the game. Allowing people to keep the gear will also ruin the economy, Prices will drop because so much gear will be floating around between the players it'll become worthless.

You need a way to remove remove gear from the game to allow for a healthy economy and keeping the players interested.

I definitely feel like a better gear sink is necessary, nobody really disassembles and the market will become over saturated. There will be no economy except for imprints.

There also should be a sink for relics, I see people dropping relics all over spawn since there is no purpose once you've already consumed them.

Edited by Huge

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The Thorns would make more sense to be part of some Beginner's Pack offer. Just merge the items so they can be used by all classes (as rings and amulets) and there is only 5 of them as entire set. It's bad that it has power to scare some players away when this is item you won't ever touch again after you get tier 5.

Also, due to way the gear upgrades work, I don't think that complete loss of items when you die would be good. I'm not against punishment, but not that kind when you lose item you worked on hard for weeks (cannot be compared with rotmg where even the best items are just drops and can farm them). But I can hear the argument that some may thing it's pay to win. Then just make it core mechanic of the game and let players preserve items after death even for other currencies (Silver) or make the item broken. That means that player will receive broken version of that item in mail and can use crafting station to repair it. So it's a setback, but not one that drives you away.

I personally think that game should work in a way where gear is something you want players to always pass to their descendants and the really painful loss is designed to be in relics. Yes, relics. If you have them all, it's really big setback as you will need to do tons of t9/t10 runs to get it back (and as you will be weaker than before, with higher chance to die).

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Yeah I could see the Thorns gear being part of a pack, as long as its clear that it is just starter gear, I could get behind that, but either way store or pack just needs to be clear on that so we stop seeing the "p2w" reviews based on that gear haha.

The Rng is heavy towards engame and in a good way imo. I could see losing really good items being really disappointing, but I thought this was a permadeath rouge lite. If i wanted a rpg singleplalyer like experience I wouldn't be playing this game. There is almost 0 punishment for dying. Keeping items is also ruining other aspects of the game, such as the economy(auction house prices) and value of items. I do see where you're coming from but the game was advertised as a punishing permadeath game, idk.

I like to think of the vault as a way of passing down gear to their descendants, its all the treasures that person has accumulated through there lifetime. They pass it down to the next kin. Having a vault AND being able to keep items on death, meh. Doesn't feel rogue-like to me.

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27 minutes ago, DangerCZE said:

The Thorns would make more sense to be part of some Beginner's Pack offer. Just merge the items so they can be used by all classes (as rings and amulets) and there is only 5 of them as entire set. It's bad that it has power to scare some players away when this is item you won't ever touch again after you get tier 5.

Also, due to way the gear upgrades work, I don't think that complete loss of items when you die would be good. I'm not against punishment, but not that kind when you lose item you worked on hard for weeks (cannot be compared with rotmg where even the best items are just drops and can farm them). But I can hear the argument that some may thing it's pay to win. Then just make it core mechanic of the game and let players preserve items after death even for other currencies (Silver) or make the item broken. That means that player will receive broken version of that item in mail and can use crafting station to repair it. So it's a setback, but not one that drives you away.

I personally think that game should work in a way where gear is something you want players to always pass to their descendants and the really painful loss is designed to be in relics. Yes, relics. If you have them all, it's really big setback as you will need to do tons of t9/t10 runs to get it back (and as you will be weaker than before, with higher chance to die).

I beg to disagree. The most attractive thing about this game is precisely the "you die, you lose" premise. Just like in the real world, you have to risk things in order to succeed; That's what makes this game pretty unique among all the other "awww, you died? don't worry, you'll keep all the progress until you reach a point where you won't be able to go further because you already got everything you possibly could" games. 

The thrill of fighting hords of monsters bearing in mind that one mistake could kill you, and make you lose your items is an exciting and unique feeling.

That's the way I see things.

Edited by Fawzi
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Yep. I have full T5 gear stored in my bank so that if I die I can easily get back to level 25 in about half an hour. Then let me just equip my T8/T9 that I have in the bank reaaal quiiiiiiiiick! Ahh, back to where I was before I died.

Edited by purducken

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Hey everyone! This conversation about keeping items after death/the use of the returner is really great stuff. If there was something you'd like to change about this process, what would it be? Would it feel more fair if the currency was bloodstone rather than Electrum? If it was structured differently? What if there was an item you could grind for in game that could allow you to retain an item? Please pass any ideas along!

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1 hour ago, HH_katherine said:

Hey everyone! This conversation about keeping items after death/the use of the returner is really great stuff. If there was something you'd like to change about this process, what would it be? Would it feel more fair if the currency was bloodstone rather than Electrum? If it was structured differently? What if there was an item you could grind for in game that could allow you to retain an item? Please pass any ideas along!

Id be down with a rare item dropping from somewheres like the raid being able to apply and to keep 1 item and having the drop rate be low. I'd be down with something like that personally, but with that id want the whole selecting and saving items upon death being removed. Having the ability to save items still in the game but not a cheap method like it is now. Still would be fair and require hardwork. 

Edited by Zestygoobs

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After completing the T10 raid a few times and noticing it only drops relics, Having it rarely drop Marks of Kin that you would apply to items would be amazing, Not to common though so trading them is expensive and exclusive. Would be great!

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14 hours ago, Zestygoobs said:

After completing the T10 raid a few times and noticing it only drops relics, Having it rarely drop Marks of Kin that you would apply to items would be amazing, Not to common though so trading them is expensive and exclusive. Would be great!

Yes, making the marks a drop that let's you keep your gear is interesting idea. People should realize this is not RotMG and behind items is way more work than in RotMG where you use items exactly as they drop. It's still punishing as hell... just imagine losing character that had ALL relics. Not just these 2 tabs, but way more.

Another approach is to reduce costs of everything and make people actually lose all but single item. It's easy for some players to say they want permadeath more punishing when their entire experience is about running t5 and dropping tons of gear over and over. But in the endgame the time needed to get best items increases exponentially.

And T10... that is currently something you complete few times for relics and then need to go back to insta-killing everything in t9, because t10 has tons of enemies that give absolutely nothing useful. It would help to make bosses drop Silver, spawn there chests with Materials and to incentivize players to clear all mobs instead of rushing bosses.

I think good mechanism would be if 30% of the rooms in T10 had chest supposed to be spawned when room is fully cleared. These chests would primarily have a lot of Silver and maybe other stuff like t8-t9 materials, charms, imprints or even some special relics. Additionally, one of these chests would be Elite and after activating respawn the room, but with stronger enemies. Reward for clearing this would be t10 materials and nice bag of Silver.

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