Jump to content
SushiNoW

SENTINEL SPECIAL ABILITY TOO OP?

Recommended Posts

Hey guys! As you all know sentinel special ability makes a circle where you and your allies regenerate hp and enemies and attacks can`t go through, sort like a shield. This breaks ANY BOSS MECHANIC  ((?), NOT TESTED). You just stand facing the boss and hit without moving. With a proper build, literally makes the best class in the game for tanking or dps. It´s versatility is by far the best one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

considering most bosses fire off a whole bunch of bullets at once, its likely theyll wipe a sentinels full energy bar in 1-2 shots depending on if he procs the "no energy consumed" and has a legacy that allows energy recovery.

still doesnt quite break boss mechanics but requires a massive time investment to actually achieve a situation where you lock down a boss

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, xuton said:

considering most bosses fire off a whole bunch of bullets at once, its likely theyll wipe a sentinels full energy bar in 1-2 shots depending on if he procs the "no energy consumed" and has a legacy that allows energy recovery.

still doesnt quite break boss mechanics but requires a massive time investment to actually achieve a situation where you lock down a boss

It is really easy to build up round enery recovery...sentinel is disgustingly unbalanced atm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's just sort of it. Sentinel is currently the only proper tank in the game, if they added another one it probably wouldn't feel as nearly as bad.

And think about it like this: The specials on the other classes just aren't that good for DPS.

The Harbinger probably has it best without any gimmick and just raw damage, Infiltrator just drops a rotating AoE where you have to get in the middle of enemies to use it, Alchemists drop AoE puddles that can go over walls but don't really do the best damage, Geomancers have shitty rotating turrets that do a fraction of your crit damage and lag the game out and can be broken in a single hit in a bullet hell game and Druids have it worst by being a Bear that charges whenever you click.

Of course when you compare Sentinel, the only other balanced special is Harbinger which has literally no gimmicks. Infiltrator apparently can be stupidly broken by making you invincible with the stealth mechanic and probably would let you run right to the boss of a dungeon, but it needs a specific build of imprints to do this. Sentinel is LITERALLY made to survive and protect others, if its tanking ability was garbage, no one would use it and it'd be "Rising of the Shield hero" where the Sentinel is the reject.

 

But that's just me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, SpectreKP said:

That's just sort of it. Sentinel is currently the only proper tank in the game, if they added another one it probably wouldn't feel as nearly as bad.

And think about it like this: The specials on the other classes just aren't that good for DPS.

The Harbinger probably has it best without any gimmick and just raw damage, Infiltrator just drops a rotating AoE where you have to get in the middle of enemies to use it, Alchemists drop AoE puddles that can go over walls but don't really do the best damage, Geomancers have shitty rotating turrets that do a fraction of your crit damage and lag the game out and can be broken in a single hit in a bullet hell game and Druids have it worst by being a Bear that charges whenever you click.

Of course when you compare Sentinel, the only other balanced special is Harbinger which has literally no gimmicks. Infiltrator apparently can be stupidly broken by making you invincible with the stealth mechanic and probably would let you run right to the boss of a dungeon, but it needs a specific build of imprints to do this. Sentinel is LITERALLY made to survive and protect others, if its tanking ability was garbage, no one would use it and it'd be "Rising of the Shield hero" where the Sentinel is the reject.

 

But that's just me.

thats the thing though. its not that hes amazing on his own its that with a proper build he is amazing.

other classes simply dont have a fully fleshed out special ability

geo does little to no damage and can be destroyed

alchemist can throw bottles over cover lets him do damage over time, and is actually good damage but useless on anything that moves.

infiltrator gains increased dodge chance and throws a dagger thingy which should do good damage if the shot blasts an enemy from inside, but again thats not likely with moving targets.

druid does the bear transformation which i like so far but dont really know how to put to good use

 

then there are harb who simply crits a lot and auto-aims, and sentinel who can wipe bullets

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just... said all that. .3.

I might've left out the part about the sentinel being great with a build, but I pretty much... just said all that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, SpectreKP said:

I just... said all that. .3.

I might've left out the part about the sentinel being great with a build, but I pretty much... just said all that.

true. i was trying to expand on their problems but i ended up repeating what you said D: tbh i think we'll have to wait and see whats coming with ancestry changes

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/13/2019 at 7:52 PM, SpectreKP said:

That's just sort of it. Sentinel is currently the only proper tank in the game, if they added another one it probably wouldn't feel as nearly as bad.

I'm not sure if being a "tank" is a good reason for the strength of the Sentinel shield.  Ultimately, the game is more "bullet hell" than RPG and most of the damage can be avoided (though sometimes not easily).  If there were more unavoidable damage, or a boss required a specific player to hold aggro and take hits, I would agree.  However, currently a tank isn't required.  The game really doesn't have a healer either, so any RPG "Trifecta" arguments" are hard to make.

I think I'd agree that the Sentinel shield is one of the better feeling ultimates. However, with the energy reduction talents, it does seem pretty strong.  I'm not sure how you balance it though.  Have it only lower the damage within the shield by the Sentinels DR, and allow the projectile to continue?  Block the damage based off the DR, and if it is exceeded, it all goes to the Sentinels Energy?  Just a % based damage reduction? That last one certainly isn't as fun.

I'm not really a fan of the auto aiming of the Harbinger's Special either, I'd consider it VERY gimmicky.  But that is a bit of a tangent.  I wouldn't try to bring down the Sentinels ability purely because other classes have specials that don't feel as smooth or useful.  I would change other specials. This is probably a forethought in the Legacy changes.  What I would judge the Sentinel special on is how it affects gameplay and balance of boss mechanics, something I now feel like a crusader for.  This is where I think the Sentinel shield in its current form would start to cause issues.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi everyone! This has been really helpful to read - lots of great insights to share here. It looks like, in general, the feeling is that all of our classes' special abilities could use a little revisiting. That's a pretty large body of work, but it's possible that smaller adjustments could be made to their abilities for now, and "bigger changes" could be seen in the various subclasses that could be created with ALs in the overhaul.

If you had to choose ONE thing to adjust about the Sentinel's special, what would it be?

  • Thanks 1
  • Confused 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As a sentinel main, I think it is perfectly balanced. Just kidding, energy loss should be based on damage blocked and have a way to scale that energy loss with damage with stats/equip. Also the invincible infiltrator build needs looked at too. 

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not a Sentinel main, but it might be cool to reduce the AOE effect by 25% and have the shield absorb a specific number of projectiles based on current energy. Once shield breaks then you got to refill on energy to get it back up again.

 

Or the Shield can be a different shape than a circle, for example a cone in front of him/180 degrees in front/shield shape around him that gives him the same benefits as current but doesn't fully protect all angles. I guess with this suggestion maybe you would have to consider that once the Sent uses the ability, he would be locked from moving but still able to rotate and could cast more "shields" around him given he had enough energy.

  • Like 1
  • Confused 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i think the problem here isnt that shield is too strong.

strong shield is required for sentinel to be able to be played as support in raids. If you nurf shield, sentinel will be just dps class that can tank some stuff now and then. It was my belief that sentinel was supposed to be different type of support tank than druid. the one who stays back with long range casters and protects them. 

Its cool concept imo, dont take it away. If you feel that sentinel is too strong, maybe make him a swiftness based class instead of willpower. The problem here is that geomancer and sentinel both are based on willpower so they deal ton of damage. Meanwhile geomancer with his turrets does fits a role of some ultimate dps class, sentinel however seems to more like a supportish tanky boy. So maybe making new class type for him. The one based on Endurance? Druid could put into this one as well since he is ultimate facetank in game.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you for the feedback! I'm going to type this up and make sure we're looking at this while adding our Sentinel subclasses - this has been so helpful! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What bothers me about Sentinel, is the class designed as a support or is it designed as a tank?  These are different things. 

Traditionally, a support is given less damage and usually less survivability in exchange for some utility.  A tank would also sacrifice damage output, but would have increased survivability.  It is able to take more damage, but the cost is that the tank is also inflicted by the damage intended for other sources.  A druid who really wanted to "tank" would be getting hit by projectiles at point blank range.  In exchange for his 25% more endurance, the class must take more damage to be effective. 

The current special seems to allow a "support" role, where the shield grants damage reduction and HP regeneration to anyone, along with complete negation of projectiles.  The shield does not emanate from the character, so it can be placed in areas where it may not even protect the sentinel.   However, the Sentinel has more health and endurance than other classes, making it slightly more hardy. Also, from an aesthetic perspective, it certainly seems like a tank. 

In practice, however, the class does not conform to either.  A Sentinel has no downside.  Unlike a tank, there is no additional risk placed on the class.  Unlike a support, the class is not fragile.  Unlike both, tank and support, a Sentinel also does not sacrifice damage.  The shields ability to negate any projectile, no  matter the damage, also strikes me as a difficult mechanic to balance. 

If the Sentinel were a true tank, as I think is aesthetically intended,  the shield would perhaps cause players in the area of the shield to take... ~50% less damage, but also cause say.. ~10% of the damage negated to the Sentinel.  Hence, risk.  I would get rid of the shield stopping projectiles.  First, as stated above, it seems too strong.  Second, if the sentinel were to take damage from every projectile that hits the shield, it would just be too much.  The new mechanic would still reward both players and the sentinel for reacting to bullets.  If a player successfully dodged, neither lose health.  If the target is hit, both still lose health, but by a lower amount.

 Also, this opens up two possibly legacies, one increasing the damage reduction of the shield (which already exists, and really doesn't seem to do much given all projectiles would currently be stopped by the shield before the DR came into effect), and one lowering the damage inflicted on the Sentinel.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Breadslice - This one is a little complex because /technically/ none of our classes were designed to fit a traditional "role" - DPS/tank/support. We mostly just tried to pick specials that we thought would be interesting and that would fit with the theme of the classes we designed. Because the Sentinel was tanky-looking , with a larger and sturdier sprite than the others, we tried some defensive options with their special ability. But, we never intended for them to be as reliably accessible as what would be required for a true tank class - the abilities depend on energy and doesn't have mechanisms like defensive cooldowns that would be important for that role. The same can be said for the Druid. 

That being said, our Ancestral Legacy rework seeks to change that a bit. The healer/tank/DPS themes will come through in the Legacies that we add - but it's unlikely that these roles will be extremely rigid. For example, we won't have a support that only heals and doesn't deal damage, or a tank that serves to only soak up damage. We want to create dynamics that are interesting and don't only rely on *dealing* damage, so think of each class as "role-leaning" rather than "role-locked."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×